Debian and ubuntu, again

[sophtpaw]

Stepping out of the Ubuntu bubble i have been in for a long time, i was a little surprised, shocked actally, to hear how much heat there is coming from other Linux users towards Ubuntu.
Is it just jealousy or do they have a point i asked myself? I came across this blog which in a neutral way put some of the issues concerned.

debian vs ubuntu

Wondered if any of you would like to shed some more light onthe situation.

Seems, one of the main issue is ubuntu forking debian packages and not giving enough back to Debian.

I didn't know Ubuntu owed Debian anything. Figured it was just another os doing a good thing in the world by bringing Linux to more people's desktop than any other linux os has done sofar. but seems like not everyone agrees.

[kabus]

http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/relationship

[bruce89]

A whole load of linux users annoy me because I don't use a "real" linux like Gentoo or Slackware. They also don't help and tell you to RTFM, that is why this forum is brilliant, as we are all very helpful. This has nothing to do with Debian though.

[sophtpaw]

http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/relationship

yeah, thats the official line, i know. I've read it also. So, why did i discover to my dismay, that in reality many Linux users (other than ubuntu) and debian developers (apparently) disgruntled at the ubuntu/debian relationship? thats what i'm asking

[bruce89]

yeah, thats the official line, i know. I've read it also. So, why did i discover to my dismay, that in reality many Linux users (other than ubuntu) and debian developers (apparently) disgruntled at the ubuntu/debian relationship? thats what i'm asking

That link is propaganda.

[kabus]

yeah, thats the official line, i know.

I just posted a link to some facts about the Ubuntu/Debian relationship in the hope that this thread wouldn't end up full of enlightened statements like this :

These snobs are very annoying.

So, why did i discover to my dismay, that in reality many Linux users (other than ubuntu) and debian developers (apparently) disgruntled at the ubuntu/debian relationship?

Any evidence ?
The blog post mentions one slightly 'disgruntled' Debian dev whose reasoning you can read here:

http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/...ket_thing.html

There's really not much else to discuss in that blog post because it's all vague hearsay.
Matt Zimmerman pretty much debunks it point by point here:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/so...ly/008134.html

The minutes of the Ubuntu-Debian discussion at Debconf also suggest that the problems are much smaller than some people make them out to be:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-proje.../msg00278.html

[...]the problems we're facing now, are generic problems that we could have with other derivatives as well.
We were just not prepared to work efficiently with any derivative and we're just figuring out how to do it right.
Debian needs to evolve to be better armed to incorporate the good bits that are in derivatives.

[BWF89]

Seems, one of the main issue is ubuntu forking debian packages and not giving enough back to Debian.

I didn't know Ubuntu owed Debian anything. Figured it was just another os doing a good thing in the world by bringing Linux to more people's desktop than any other linux os has done sofar. but seems like not everyone agrees.

Theres some people in a different thread that don't even want it mentioned on Ubuntu's home page that Ubuntu is in fact Linux. Not mentioning that it's very existence doesn't depend entirely on Debian is bad enough, but just saying that were so godly that we shouldn't even say were Linux, but above it would make me see why theres alot of friction between us and the rest of Linuxworld.

Ubuntu is not always gurantted to be there for us like Debian us. Ubuntu is a distro that the second that Mark Shutleworth had a change of heart he could pull all his money out and we'd be left with nothing. Debian doens't need anyone, they don't depend on money of paid developers, and it's been chugging along just fine since 1993 with that philosophy. Ubuntu's been around since October 2004.

[bruce89]

Theres some people in a different thread that don't even want it mentioned on Ubuntu's home page that Ubuntu is in fact Linux. Not mentioning that it's very existence doesn't depend entirely on Debian is bad enough, but just saying that were so godly that we shouldn't even say were Linux, but above it would make me see why theres alot of friction between us and the rest of Linuxworld.

It does now:

Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too!

[lapsey]

it's not worth worrying about. No matter where canonical goes, ubuntu is in the hands of the community if it needs to be.


And the only reason people are saying 'don't mention linux!' is because that is apparently a Bad Word to use when you are trying to sell people on Ubuntu.

Is it me or does much of the FUD in the community arise from zealots jumping to their conclusions? Your arguments are only worth anything when based in fact, guys.

[loell]

i guess when you're on top of the foodchain, you usually take up the heat from other minor distros and i think its normal. i think it has always been like that even in the past with red hat, Mandrake/mandriva and Suse