Will "Trusted Computing" matter?

[hizaguchi]

Being a longtime Windows user who is only recently seeing the point of open source (beyond freedom in the "freeware" sense), I've been trying to learn more about things like "Trusted Computing" and DRM. From my new point of view, these things seem horrible. But what I wonder is, do you think these increasingly imposing digital restrictions will really make much difference to the average Windows user? Do you think they'll make much difference (aside from piracy and file sharring) to the way computers are used in general? What are the real, practical implications (not just the ideological problems)?

A big part of me hates the idea of having any more restrictions placed on my own property, especially when the restrictions come from private industry rather than government. I want to declare that I'll make a more dilligent effort to move completely away from Microsoft products from now on, and never purchase another Windows OS. But I wonder if all of this is because the restrictions really have a practical impact on me, or if I just feel this way because of my ideals. I'm not well enough informed about this technology to know the difference in paranoia and an actual problem.

[GeneralZod]

The TPM allows a server to request and receive an (effectively) unforgeable hash of the programs on your system - this will enable e.g. websites to not provide content to your machine unless it knows that it will be encrypted and keyed to your machine so that it cannot be copied elsewhere.

Some have donned their tinfoil hats and said that eventually, ISPs may simply just refuse Internet access to anything but a Trusted machine running a Trusted OS, and that this OS will definitely not be Linux - more likely, it will be a DRM-laden version of Windows. This will pretty much kill off the Free Software movement once and for all, or at least marginalise it so much that it will never be any kind of competition for proprietary stuff. Someone mentioned that Bush eventually wants all online computers to be Trusted, but didn't provide a link, so this may not be true.

Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that Linux users may well end up suffering every bit as much (or perhaps more) than our Windows using brethren. But then, I always tend to assume the worst, so don't mind me

Edit:

If you want some even more dystopian views on the implications of the adoption of this technology, read this:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

[23meg]

Let me start by stating my stance: I find TC disgusting, I won't run Windows Vista or any other TC-enabled OS on any computer I own, I won't even check my email on a TC-enabled system, I'll take every chance to avoid buying anything produced by TCPA member companies, and I try my best to raise awareness about the issue.

But judging by the relative ignorance of the masses so far, and the weakness of the protests that do exist, I sadly think it won't make a big difference. You read right; the sad part of it is that it won't make a big difference. It won't make a big difference in the profits software companies make by reducing piracy (it WILL be cracked, even though less practically than software only copy protection), it won't make a difference on how Joe Average sees his ownership rights on his computer and his data, it won't make a difference to companies and institutions shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to Microsoft to blindly update their copies of XP without knowing the massive change in the underlying technology. It won't make a difference to the unwashed masses.

But it will change the ethical climate of the world of everyday computing irreversibly.

On the other hand, many ethically sensitive people who haven't been turned to the issue so far will understand the true consequences of adopting TC, even though late, and concentrate on adopting a FOSS scheme as soon as possible. Linux and BSD will gain an addition to their user base, which will be the people who have been waiting at the margin of the proprietary software world for a killer reason to totally abandon it.

But I wonder if all of this is because the restrictions really have a practical impact on me, or if I just feel this way because of my ideals.

It shouldn't matter. Even if there are no practical restrictions placed on you (since you're not using a TC-enabled OS for example), if it's against your ethical stance on how computing should be in general, if you find it ideologically incorrect in its essence, you should oppose it.

If you haven't already, take time to read Ross Anderson's TC FAQ. It's the best half hour you can invest in getting informed on computing ethics, and now is the time to get informed.

[Malphas]

Doesn't the Linux kernel already have TPM support?

[23meg]

Doesn't the Linux kernel already have TPM support?

Support doesn't necessarily mean utilization; even if there is support, as long as you have control on the code that operates on the hardware and are sure it doesn't do anything "evil", you're on the safe side. And open source being open source, you'll always be able to throw away the evil code if you wish, whereas proprietary operating systems are stuck with it from now on.

Furthermore, if the TPM can be used for high quality open-source, non-vendor-locked encryption, that's only a gain for open source.

[Malphas]

Support doesn't necessarily mean utilization; even if there is support, as long as you have control on the code that operates on the hardware and are sure it doesn't do anything "evil", you're on the safe side. And open source being open source, you'll always be able to throw away the evil code, whereas proprietary operating systems are stuck with it from now on.

Well in the very FAQ you linked to it actually says that you have the option to switch TC off (and it appears to be saying that in the context of Windows).

[23meg]

Well in the very FAQ you linked to it actually says that you have the option to switch TC off (and it appears to be saying that in the context of Windows).

You do, but if you do, you won't be able to run apps that will require TC to be on (which will be pretty much every major software package for Windows, since the TCPA includes pretty much every major Windows software vendor), you won't be able to play your media files acquired from a TC-using vendor, you won't be able to connect to services that require TC, you won't be able to use certain Windows features, so on. Turning TC off will defeat the purpose of running Windows for most people. And even when you turn it off, you can't be 100% sure that it's turned off, since you don't know what the closed source software that says it has turned it off is actually doing.

[Malphas]

Yes, but that exact same situation is equally possible under Linux. Again, it says this in the FAQ.

[23meg]

Yes, but that exact same situation is equally possible under Linux. Again, it says this in the FAQ.

It's theoretically possible in any OS, but as I've said before, it will be mandatory in closed-source systems that utilize it whereas in open source you have exact control on what your kernel and your userspace apps are doing with the TPM, and if you don't want to utilize the TPM at all, if you want to disable all access to it, you can do so without any silly restrictions such as being unable to run the majority of your apps. It comes down to the basic difference between open source and proprietary.

[Malphas]

Now we're going round in circles. Yes, it's possible in any OS, agreed; and as you said it'll be mandatory in closed-source systems such as Windows, and as I already said the FAQ that you linked to actually contradicts you on this point. I'm not saying I agree 100% with the FAQ either, mind you.

Now you're saying that if Linux does come with TC, you'll simply be able to disable it with no restrictions as consequence. As far as I can see this is completely unsubstantiated and most likely false. If you're running a Linux application that requires TC and you disable it, then it won't work - exactly the same as the situation in a closed-source system. If you're trying to play TC media files in Linux and you disable TC, it won't work - again, exactly the same as in a closed source system. The basic difference between open-source and proprietary is completely irrelevant.

Of course, all this is mostly speculation and don't think anyone can really claim at this stage to know how this is actually going to unfold itself.