Is Microsoft Windows ready for the desktop?

[jeremy]

I see this question asked so often about GNU/Linux that I feel it is time to ask the same about one of the alternative OS's available.

[weasel fierce]

I see this question asked so often about GNU/Linux that I feel it is time to ask the same about one of the alternative OS's available.

How many virus killers and spyware killers does it come with, fresh from the CD ?

[newbie2]

I see this question asked so often about GNU/Linux that I feel it is time to ask the same about one of the alternative OS's available.

nah...

"A third key?!
But according to two witnesses attending the conference, even Microsoft's top crypto programmers were astonished to learn that the version of ADVAPI.DLL shipping with Windows 2000 contains not two, but three keys. Brian LaMachia, head of CAPI development at Microsoft was "stunned" to learn of these discoveries, by outsiders."
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/5263/1.html

"The European Parliament reports have sparked Continent-wide anger. Questions
have been raised by officials in Denmark, Germany, Norway, and Holland,
while the Swedish government has launched an investigation into whether
Swedish companies have been victims of covert NSA surveillance.
In Italy, a Rome deputy district attorney has opened an inquiry to determine
whether NSA activities violate Italian privacy law.
More important, perhaps, the reports encouraged France and Germany to lift
their restrictions on the use and sale of strong encryption software, which
Washington has been trying to limit."
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pi...er/005968.html

"Germany's Bundiswehr is banning Microsoft software (and presumably other major American software packages) from use in critical environments due to concern over "back doors" suspected to have been placed for the use of U.S. spy agencies, particularly the NSA (National Security Agency).
China, last year, declared Linux, particularly the home grown Red Flag Linux, the official operating system for Chinese government and commerce due to similar security fears."
http://www.aaxnet.com/news/M010318.html

[Stormy Eyes]

I see this question asked so often about GNU/Linux that I feel it is time to ask the same about one of the alternative OS's available.

Windows isn't good enough for me. It's not good enough for my wife. I wouldn't inflict it on my worst enemies; cutting them down would be more merciful.

[Kerberos]

The only reason Linux doesnt have the spyware problem Windows has is a lack of userbase. In Linux the installing program is assumed 'trusted' almost as much as the Windows one and there is no reason, apart from a scarcity of installs, that spyware cannot exist on Linux.

Due to the fact most of my time spent with computers is work related I can take no sides down to politics as my computing decisions have to be justified, and the best decision for the job. For example I cannot justify setting up a Linux fileserver if it'll take me 2 days to do, and another few weeks of learning to be able to maintain the thing myself. A Microsoft solution, although with their own problems, is just much easier to install, maintain and administer.

I have 15 Windows PC's open for public use 12 hours a day, for gaming, scanning and internet. I spend an hour or so every month patching* but apart from that I spend no time on admin, and very few people need help once you point them in the right way.

So yes, Windows is desktop ready.

* The bulk of the patching appears to be FireFox updates. Not that I mind installing security updates (better than not having them!).

[Kerberos]

I'm not looking for a flamewar btw, Its just I still think the prerequisite knowlege for running and maintaing a Linux system is above the level than can be expected from 90% of the population. Its getting there, but not yet.

[egon spengler]

The only reason Linux doesnt have the spyware problem Windows has is a lack of userbase. In Linux the installing program is assumed 'trusted' almost as much as the Windows one and there is no reason, apart from a scarcity of installs, that spyware cannot exist on Linux.

I often hear people say that the reason there is no spyware/viruses for Linux is because so few people use it. Thing is though there has to be a few million Linux users, I know Linux counter estimates there being 29 million Linux users http://counter.li.org/estimates.php

Lets assume that that is a massivley overoptimistic estimation, there still has to be at least a few million Linux users, is it really not worth creating spyware for them? What about viruses? As others before me have noted the motivation for many virus writers seems to be simply showing off, wouldn't creating the first wide spread Linux virus be quite a feather in the cap for a budding virus writer?

As for your other point about not using Linux because you can't be bothered to learn how to use it that's fair enough. If you got something that works realisticallly there is no pressing need to go learn a whole new system just for the sake of it. I didn't bother with Linux myself for a long time because I thought (wringly it turned out) that it would be too much hassle to learn. The thing you need to bear in mind though is that you weren't born with the knowledge of how to learn windows, that is something you learnt some time ago. From that it seems unlogical to conclude that because you personally don't want to invest the time it takes to learn how to use Linux that Linux is somehow lacking in comparison to Windows. Someone completely new to computer who is learning it all from scratch could just as easily learn Linux as Windows

[Kvark]

For someone who has equal experience with all systems I would say windows is definately not the easiest option. For someone who is completely new to computers. Both windows and many linux distros are hard to start out with. OSX, Ubuntu or perhaps Linspire are probably the easiest points to start at for a computer illiterate. In the other end of the scale, someone who is very good at using both windows and linux will find that most things goes a bit faster to do on linux then on windows.

...but that is theoretical cases, in relaity it looks like this:

Everyone has already used windows for years. If you are a wizard on windows and a newbie on linux. Then of course you know how to do everything on windows and nothing on linux! Thus I have to say that windows is the only system that can ever be ready for desktop. No matter how easy to use another system gets or how illogical windows acts. People are still very experienced with windows and newbies on all other systems.

[Omnios]

Windows is to far ahead of itself. Just connecting to the internet can cause programs install themselves. Your homepage can get changed without your knowledge wich can take hours to figure out how to get your homepage back. Also I have actualy heard of someone calling in a tecki to get rid of all the spyware and un hijack there computer. ActiveX is a total failure but they refuse to admit defeat in on that issue. For someone with a fair bit of computer knowledge should be ok but a total newb is in for a supprise. Also I read of this but it seems rare but visiting the wrong site could get your modem highjacked with a new 976- isp which charges your phone with a heafty phone bill.

People say Windows is so far ahead but in reality there way to far ahead of themselves. Now the issue of trusted sites and systems might be attempts to address this but one point, they dont own the interenet and if I remember what the founder of the internet stated, they did not wan't this. This showes even there attidude towards the internet is borked

[TravisNewman]

The only reason Linux doesnt have the spyware problem Windows has is a lack of userbase. In Linux the installing program is assumed 'trusted' almost as much as the Windows one and there is no reason, apart from a scarcity of installs, that spyware cannot exist on Linux.

The reason spyware doesn't exist on Linux is 1) no activeX, 2) you aren't always in root mode, 3) the people developing open source software aren't thick enough to put spyware in it, 4) even if they were, most software that you could ever need comes from a few central, trusted repositories. The benefits of making spyware for Linux would outweigh the costs, if they could find a way in, but that doesn't seem too likely.

I notice you didn't mention viruses. Good on your part It's possible to write a virus for linux, surely, but if I recall correctly, there's only been one, and it was just a script that deleted some files. It's quite hard to make a virus do anything in Linux.

Due to the fact most of my time spent with computers is work related I can take no sides down to politics as my computing decisions have to be justified, and the best decision for the job. For example I cannot justify setting up a Linux fileserver if it'll take me 2 days to do, and another few weeks of learning to be able to maintain the thing myself. A Microsoft solution, although with their own problems, is just much easier to install, maintain and administer.

Lets be fair, you could set up a GENTOO server for that, starting from stage 1 (meaning, compiling every single executable and library on the system, essentially) and it still wouldn't take 2 days. A couple of good howto's on the net, and it'll take you one or two days to learn how to maintain it.
This isn't a fair analogy, I admit, I frequently exaggerate to make a point, but it's like saying you'll stick to your bike, because learning to drive a car would take a couple weeks to learn.

* The bulk of the patching appears to be FireFox updates. Not that I mind installing security updates (better than not having them!).

I have a hard time believing that, on Windows pcs, the bulk of your security updates are Firefox.